Talk:Chris McLean
I love Chris, he's my favorite Total Drama character, and I don't see him as an antagonist, he's too good looking to be so bad!SailorKingdomHearts (talk) 22:59, September 15, 2013 (UTC) Sometimes, though, looks can fool you About the Candidate Deletion This again, really? It has been explained a hundred times, that a character who is just a jerk, but not evil, as still allowed on this wiki, because acting mean to others make you undeniably villainous. Besides, he's the main antagonist, and puts all characters in lots of life risks for money and fame. He's also more than "just a jerk" because of that. He's not truely evil, but he's got the selfish tendencies and uncaring ways of a villain. DiabolicCade (talk), 01:14, November 25, 2015 :I wasn't here for any earlier discussions. However the Villains Wiki:Rules section 6 clearly states that he has to be established as a villain in his setting (6.1) which despite being a reality show producer, he is not. Also that Antagonists are not necessarily Villains (6.3) especially "who aren't shown as being evil/wicked, especially if they are good characters or on the side of law". Chris is not evil (anymore than any TV executive :P ), and is clearly on the side of the law (as much as any TV executive ;P ), and that being a Jerk "is no longer valid" (6.2). :If any earlier discussions said he could stay, it was apparently either before the Rules in their current form as phrases such as "no longer valid" indicate an undating, or were ignored, which they should not have been. :--Love Robin (talk) 00:21, December 28, 2015 (UTC) ::He's a villain because he gets every one of these characters in death risks for all the fame and glory, and enjoys it. In fact, if anyone is THE villain as a whole, it's him. He's the Big Bad, for these facts, and is a Faux Affably Evil corrupt host. :::He FAILS the Rules. :::*6.1—He is not established in his setting as a Villain :::*6.2—Being a Jerk is not enough :::*6.3—Even *IF* he can be considered an Antagonist, it is not enough because he is NOT "Wicked/Evil" :::Furthermore, in their setting, ALL of the contestants on the "show" signed up for it. They each sent in auditions tapes ''asking to be chosen'', and signed waivers. Some also willingly returned when given the chance, not only in any given season, but for successive seasons. Would they do that if they thought he was a Villain of the malicious and wicked variety?? I doubt it. Thus the setting does not support him as a villain (6.1), thus he FAILS the Rules' criteria. --Love Robin (talk) 02:04, December 28, 2015 (UTC) I honestly can see him staying as he polluted a island and arrested for it, never paid Chief apparently (him I have no strong opinion on) endangers others lives constantly, apparently lied to the producers about a dangerous challenge according to the website, tried to blow up and I believe has blown up a boat all the contestants were on. They signed the contacts before knowing of his true self and while most returned one season out of jealousy other times he's forced at least Duncan back once. First season I could see arguments either way but as the series has progressed he has only gotten worse and has last I watched it crossed the MEH due to not caring about the lives of anyone but himself. Figured I'd throw my two cents namely since I am going to try to avoid deleting this article or removing the deletion tag. I'll try to let another decide its fate. Jester of chaos (talk) 15:38, December 28, 2015 (UTC) :Polluting the island was illegal. Endangering the contestants isn't, if they are signing waivers and sending audience tapes to be on the show. The contestants watch the show so they know about his true self, they tolerate him because they need him for the fame and money they could get for winning the show even if their is a risk that they could die from participating (and seeing as no contestant yet has died from constantly doing these challenges they must be at least somewhat survivable). He becomes more sadistic as the series goes on which I guess you could say is enough to keep him here.Stolen5487 (talk) 16:51, December 28, 2015 (UTC) ::Rule 6.1 says "established in their setting". This means the setting establishes them, not the fans. As a fan I can make a case for the inclusion of Kim Possible as a Villain due to her "fluid morality", but her setting does not. As for the challenges getting more difficult, that's what reality and many challenge-type shows do, escalate the nature of the challenges each season and or incarnation. ::And also, there are people in his network he has to answer to, to get approvals for. Challenges have to be approved and checked. Chris's decision can also be reversed, else Courtney's lawyers would not have gotten her back onto the show. ::The rules for this wikia clearly says that being a Jerk(6.1) is not enough, being Flawed(6.2) is not enough, even being an Antagonist(6.3) is not enough, they must be Wicked/Evil(6.3). The first three Chris definitely is, the last he's not. --Love Robin (talk) 17:50, December 28, 2015 (UTC) He lied to them apparently in the producers on a challenges to quote the total drama wiki "In The Final Wreck-ening, he excitedly explains that the challenge was so dangerous the network rejected the initial proposal - and he lied about shutting it down.", later shown to have polluted the island with toxic waste which was illegal and he was sentenced to jail for it, the way the series starts off actually implies that he wasn't known to be such a cruel host based on how some people acted and treated him like a alright guy but as the series went on he's shown as a egotistical and corrupt person so they probably didnt know the full extent of the conditions they'd be in for, the show paints him as a corrupt producer that is more then willing to risk lives not simply a jerk no ones likes. Willing to let others be severely hurt or killed is beyond flawed. "Throughout the series, he mentions most of the interns dying or being in the hospital, without a hint of remorse and almost with glee." - Total drama wiki. That in of itself is not simply an antagonistic jerk or flawed character its a villainous character in my eyes. That said I will do my best to avoid removing the template yet or delete it I rather let another admin read through and make the decision because I doubt anyone can convince me otherwise or I convince you otherwise on this particular matter. Everyone is allowed their opinion and I encourage anyone to say their view on this subject so we can hear from the majority. Jester of chaos (talk) 18:43, December 28, 2015 (UTC) :Chris McLean is far worse than a jerk. The contestants signed their contracts before they knew his true self and it has been implied that he wasn't always a cruel host. He puts the contestants through challenges that endangers their lives, goes out of his way to make the challenges more difficult for his own amusement, abuses his own interns or letting them die, and polluting an island that got him sent to jail. Chris McLean started out as a cruel prankster but as the show goes on he has become an outright sociopath, criminal and a sadist that is responsible for most of conflicts in the franchise. Tearface (talk) 19:26, December 28, 2015 (UTC) ::He still FAILS the criteria in the Rules. The FACT the show continues to runs shows that although a Jerk(6.1), the Network Execs in the setting DO NOT consider him Wicked and or Evil (6.3). Remember that "just because something offends you does not make it evil / immoral"(6.2), and apparently his Bosses agree that what he is doing is not. Again, ramping up the challenges is part and parcel of the nature of reality and physical game shows. ::Now, if a season ever depicts him running an "illegal" or "pirated air" show without any network approvals AND holding the contestants captive/hostage/under duress, then his setting would make him a Villain. --Love Robin (talk) 20:14, December 28, 2015 (UTC) It's not that it offends or we don't agree on all his acts but him causing the death of interns and willingness to let others die for rating is a vilainous trait, apparently did a challenge even his network said it was too dangerous with glee which is saying something. The producers are likely not aware of everything he does considering it appears he withholds Chef's paycheck for a season (illegal) and spends most the budget meant to cover emergencies on his own luxuries (might be illegal bit honestly sure). These and the fact he's risked their lives when Scarlett threatened to let the others by refusing to give her the money. He goes simply beyond simply being a jerk or antagonist with all this. Antagonist would simply be in his case making a few challenges hard but not purposely put their lives in this much danger and definitely wouldn't pollute an entire island with toxic waste then have contestants compete in said area. Jester of chaos (talk) 20:52, December 28, 2015 (UTC) What is wrong with you people? Chris McLean is NOT "Just a jerk". He killed MANY of his interns throughout the show, such as in World Tour, in addition he let two of his interns in Sundea Muddy Sundea nearly starve to death. Anyone who argues that he's just a jerk clearly hasn't seen much of Total Drama. I don't like Chris McLean at all. He is very inconsiderate to the contestants and so wrapped up in his own drama.